ArtEchive

Thank you for taking the time to speak with us today. This conversation is organized by ArtEchive as part of our ongoing interview series.

We’re interested in using this conversation to think through how different roles—curatorial, commercial, and research-based—intersect within the contemporary art system. Rather than treating these as separate positions, we want to understand how they overlap, conflict, and inform one another in practice.

Today’s interview begins with your personal experience and moves toward broader questions of exhibition-making, institutional structures, and long-term research. We’ll also touch on how curators position themselves within the system, and how younger practitioners might navigate these conditions.

Structures, Practice, and Positioning

ArtEchive

You’ve taken on multiple roles, working in a gallery, curating, writing, doing research, and also serving as a juror. How do these different positions relate to each other?

Phil Zheng Cai

For me, the most important thing is a kind of division.

On one side, there is the gallery. It’s a commercial structure. You have to think about representation, sales, and how to support artists sustainably. That’s always a priority in that context.

On the other side, there is my own practice—my research, curating, writing, and translation. That part is much more independent. Sometimes it’s not even about money. Sometimes you’re just investing your own time and resources.

In a place like New York, where everything moves very fast, having your own direction becomes very important. Otherwise, it’s easy to just follow what’s happening around you.

When I serve as a juror, I follow the standards of the institution I’m working for. I look at what they want, and I make my judgment accordingly. I wouldn’t use either my own research direction or commercial concerns as the primary standard in that context.

ArtEchive

Are there any new directions you want to try in the future?

Phil Zheng Cai

For me, it’s more a matter of continued development. These two sides will both continue. As for how they are distributed, or how they eventually appear in front of people, that can take many different forms.

For example, last year someone approached me and invited the gallery to participate in an art fair called Split Level. At the time, it was actually a very small fair. The opportunity really came because they were interested in my curatorial work, and the invitation came through a personal connection. But I felt that bringing the gallery into that context was the best response. So in that case, my gallery role moved to the front. It became a solo presentation of Yang Shuai, and in the end it came together very well.

So that is one example. Of course, there are examples that move in the opposite direction too. Both sides have their own logic, but the form they finally take can vary. As long as they remain connected to these two directions, the final form can be different.

Current Discourses and the Present

ArtEchive

Are there any current topics or discussions that you find particularly important right now?

Phil Zheng Cai

I still go back to my own framework first.

My work is more about systemic critique. So sometimes it connects to current topics, and sometimes it doesn’t.

I don’t think it’s useful to follow trends just for the sake of it. What matters is how those discussions can become part of your own longer term framework.

Right now, people talk about things like the Global South and nomadism. But for me, these only become meaningful if they can be integrated into a larger framework. Otherwise, they stay on the surface.

From Ideas to Exhibitions

ArtEchive

How do you develop an idea into an exhibition?

Phil Zheng Cai

The first thing is sensitivity to the idea itself. Some ideas are interesting, but they are very thin. They only work on one level. You have to be able to recognize that.

A strong idea usually has layers. It’s like a good artwork. There is a main line, but there are also hidden lines—things that are not directly stated, but can be discovered.

Those hidden structures are very important. They give the exhibition more depth.

And research usually doesn’t destroy an idea. More often, it reinforces it. You realize that similar things have been done before, but that doesn’t mean you can’t do it again. Context changes everything.

Working with Conditions

ArtEchive

Exhibitions can start from very different conditions, sometimes from a concept, sometimes from artists, sometimes from constraints. How do you approach that?

Phil Zheng Cai

I think flexibility is key.

As a curator, you’re always dealing with limitations—space, budget, logistics, artists. That’s part of the work.

For me, I’m always building things in parallel. I have a list of ideas, a list of artists, and ongoing research. When an opportunity comes, you bring them together.

Another thing people don’t always talk about is the chemistry between artists. It matters more than people think. Even if works look good together, the collaboration might not work.

Sometimes it’s useful to give up some control. For example, letting one artist suggest others. That can open up connections you wouldn’t find on your own.

Advice for Younger Curators and Artists

ArtEchive

What advice would you give to younger curators and artists?

Phil Zheng Cai

First, you need your own direction. A line of research. Otherwise, everything becomes reactive.

Second, connections are important, especially in New York. But they shouldn’t be the foundation of your work.

It’s actually very easy to build an exhibition based on networks—people who already know each other, artists with strong visibility.

But I’m more interested in exhibitions that create unexpected relationships. For example, putting together artists at very different stages, and letting them speak to each other.

That kind of dialogue is more meaningful to me.

(End)